's a kind of understanding that's between all the kinds of knowing so that you grasp the significance of your participatory knowing for your perspectival knowing and your perspectival knowing for your proposition you get you basically get a positive manifold of the grasping of the significance and when i propose that idea their eyes light up they all go yeah and that's and they say they they almost they they say like no that's not proof of anything other than you know the intelligibility of the idea right but but but they but they and they all they almost always say yeah and that's what the wise person has the wise person doesn't have the individual ones they probably have that to some degree but they have the manifold the manifold understanding where you know they grasp their significance not only within the kinds of knowing but even more importantly between the kinds of knowing and so and you know the experiment i i ran in in my lab on mystical experience and meaning in life showed that it was the insight component of the mystical experience that was doing most of the heavy lifting in contributing to the meaning of life yes um and you know and insight is you know an improvement in understanding in insight you're changing relevance not evidence right uh typically right yeah and you're making new connections and so that's that's the basis of my question like it seems like you know i've got at least empirical evidence that the insight component of mystical experience is contributing a lot to the enhanced transformative potential the meaning and life potential and then insight seems to be you know a powerful kind of of understanding and the deepest kind of understanding this is very much a circumstantial argument and i'm aware of that so it's an argument more just i'm just trying to share my thinking with you i'm trying to say you know mysticism seems to be the most at least i have empirical evidence that seems to be the profoundest kinds of uh insight the profoundest kind of enhancement of understanding and then i