ere's just they're still living in the rain shadow of the religious wars and they're trying to get beyond that and that's clearly on spinoza's mind um and so for me he's he's an exemplary figure to go back to and look at uh because of the promise he holds for giving us some significant clues on how we right now where we're at sort of maybe at the other end of the scientific revolution it's sort of coming to a you know it's it's now become the established world of use can we can we look at spinoza as a way of helping to wake up from that the ways in which that world view is ontologically and existentially um and and and as you rightly point out ethically and aesthetically um insufficient and inaccurate and i think spinoza holds out the real possibility that somebody could be deeply rational deeply mystical deeply naturalistic uh deeply etc etc etc um and i know you've done quite a bit of work on spinoza and so maybe we could at some point have an extended discussion around that sort of spinoza in the light of the meaning crisis might be the way yeah i'd like to talk about it yeah i i i would love to have that conversation um spinoza for me is a hero as well um and for i and i i do i relate to him uh in many ways personally someone who who also grew up in a in a restrictive jewish community um someone who also was challenged himself to think independently someone who who was also an autoduct um yeah there there are many there are many points just on a simple narrative level which which i feel very uh much a kindred spirit with him not to compare myself to it to a man of that stature but um i that's that's definitely something which great conversation i just i just wanted to there was there was on the previous question there was there was two points which i wanted to cover which i only only did one which was the theoretical the other one is the phenomenological oh um please if yeah if you'd allow me if you'd allow me this and and this is something which which um which which i feel there's like a rubbing up against y