f like i say evidence and argument around that that's that's sort of the the first argument the argument about the indispensability irremovability of plausibility to rationality yeah i think that's very helpful and i think it's very well made thank you and i think that uh the last thing he pointed out was nice because i was able to show how these what what's often used in rhetoric that that can seem convincing when you actually just look at it based on this metric you can see where it falls exactly short and that's that's very helpful to point out those fallacies as well and uh the work that jason and i are doing is to show that uh when we're talking about um understanding as different from knowledge so what most people mean by understanding is something distinct from knowing what the difference is when i know something based on evidence uh right whereas understanding is i grasp the significance or the relevance of what i know yeah and then and that the best way to grasp significance is to use plausibility so you try and grasp the relevance that is the most that fits that plausibility matrix i'm going to pay attention to what is trustworthy optimally gripping and elegant and balanced and when i have that is it is it an algorithm will it guarantee me the truth no but what it does is it gives you trustworthiness it gives you elegance it gives you a balance it gives you optimal grip yeah it's it's interesting because you are stretching the common uh sense usage of the word just a little when you talk about plausibility as that which also affords elegance um because most people i think when they think about the word possibility um they're thinking about it more from the first side that it's it's plausible in that it has a lot of good independent sources of evidence that can discount for all kinds of things like that but they don't i don't know if people would naturally think in the second direction too as falling under they they do i mean there's a continuum and so let's do that because remember these things can so t