ements will occur so that justifies cultivating them yeah but and here's what i'd say is when people come out of these experiences they they can derive all kinds of crazy propositional beliefs and claims um and and they can they will in fact say diametrically opposite things people come like i said my favorite example i was reading this in taylor you know one person goes into this and comes out and reports now i know there's a god and they're so relieved another person comes out and said now i know there's no god and they're so relieved and they're happy or if they if they get a mystical experience without psychedelics they're more likely to find it a personal god whereas if they had it inside with a psychedelic um thing they're more likely to find it in a personal thing like the universe or the one right and so right here's these big contrasts you know there is a god there isn't the entity is personal it's an impersonal and so the metaphysics go all over like this right and so i tend to say the justification of higher states of consciousness in terms of the plausibility of improvement in wisdom does not transfer to a justification for metaphysical claims that are made and so if what's happening in the critic that you're giving voice to is well people come out of these and they say all kinds of crazy crap it's like yeah and i don't try and put the justification for the higher states on propositional theory i try to put it on you know again the sapiential improvement of skills states of consciousness and mind and identity yeah so i just want to be clear i just want to be clear with two things one one is that i do have some some slight disagreements as you know and i think it's i think it's good that there is some some space of difference there between us yes and and i and i respect your humility and welcoming difference from me that's i think that in itself is tremendous um what before before i get into that i just want to i just want to circle back to to clarify the previous point which is that is is it fair then