ime on the idea that there should be deep relationship between mystical experience and the cultivation of wisdom so i'm not invoking something that's sort of outside of historical convergence it's like no no look at all the traditions look at how the way they keep zeroing in on that the only thing that could justify these experience is that they afford the cultivation of wisdom and so i'm actually invoking something that i think is again now this is a historical argument but it's a highly plausible argument look at all the convergence and and look at the fact that that converges on you know the idea that in the end what might justify uh most of our claims for transformation is are they can we make a case for them being able to reliably improve human lives hmm yeah i think the way you were that was very clever because you you made a historical claim you turned to a historical claim that was not a propositional claim because you you phrased it as wisdom uh where where where one could have for the same price going for a claim of that these transformations were coupled with a i don't know encounter with the divine which which which can be you know which is exposed propositionally metaphysically so uh so well played there now however i like like like i said i've already previous videos in the series i've given ground and i'm thinking no and you know i i i take it that there are certain propositional theoretical claims that should also be taken seriously from the trustworthy from the plausible state the plausibly sapiential state of the mystical experience and all this convergence historical convergence towards the idea that the mystical experience presupposes the the it presupposes a deep in fact i'm going to now a profound intelligibility and that intelligibility and realness are bound together i made this argument before and then that we have to then ask what must the world be like such that this intelligibility could exist yes and i'm reading gerson's book on ancient epistemology and and he says you know that that'