through um internalizing a teacher and through finding a guru as as you put it i i know in history mr system that happens all the time in my own tradition it's something which is shoved down my throat that must you must have you must have a guru um i i i i'm going to preempt something that you may answer which is that i know that there's good empirical evidence for the benefit of of doing this transformational journey within the sapiential community and that's i think very clear and plain and maybe even common sense at this point what i what i what i want to perhaps rest the case to get it back to a fundamental level is that if you believe um that that that reality is um is fundamentally intelligible and that we can come to an optimal grip of ultimate grips of reality um which can lead to our own transformative psychological experiences which leads us to be a sage that seems to me on a foundation level should be able to be achievable by anyone because it should be germane to the the the reality of existence and the reality of the human and the relationship between them and and the fact that we need and other things may help it may be great to have a guru maybe great to have a community but the fact that we need any of that um i'm not seeing i'm not seeing the work i'm not yeah that's fair enough so i mean the lesson and take that's that was good and i'm also going to hold open the possibility as my friend jordan hall likes to say that the next buddha is the sangha that your exemplar might be a community rather than an individual um i should have been clear about that um and there's a sense in which you know within christianity the distinction between jesus as an individual and the church as the body of christ was purposely blurred towards good end in a lot of cases um so i want to acknowledge that's happening it's something that's just happening a mystical tradition where there's been an intentional um d leadership um trying to force the community to become the leader itself which which but for another time okay