the play between those um sort of long-standing historical motifs and and the space where they themselves were for affording the the capacity to to get over one's own um biases with with um with with contact with the with with external minds yeah yeah i mean it's also the case that um i mean you know the tradition i'm familiar with of course is is the uh is the desert fathers within christianity and of course they aren't alone um they're with another mind which namely the mind of god and you know we we do have good research that if you simply imagine another perspective especially one greater than your own that that can trigger the solomon effect but again we also have good evidence that that capacity to imagine that isn't something that you just sort of of like have it has to be carefully cultivated in a lot of ways yes yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i was going to ask if if the mind of god counts as another mind because that certainly seems to be present in many so there's actually i can't remember the authors you get people to pray to santa claus and they know the value of santa claus but they don't believe in santa claus and they're believers and then you get them to pray to god and what you'll notice is when they're praying to god the machinery is very much the brain is operating very much like when it's talking to another mind and then that's not the case when they're praying to santa claus so there's something going on there's a there's a functional difference at least again i'm not making any metaphysical claims about god or santa claus but that but that functional one is interesting in and of itself of of uh which which might which might be an interesting line of inquiry um in terms of the the functionality of that entity i mean so there's a lot of like modern intelligent mysticism who want to say that the gut idea is one which is employed by mystics to try and give a sense of what it was which they were in contact with and now with that functionality argument it might be interesting to think about what's wha