y'll come back to me so i mean um when you when you came to this realization um you know it sounds fairly shocking like because you were you were sort of grew up in a narrative of sort of this is where these mystical experiences are expressed or understood and then you discovered there's similarity um uh uh you know um in other religions and and philosophical traditions so i get the sense of how much of an epistemic shock that was for you like what kind of an existential shock was that for you like was your sense of identity called into question um like did that cause a rift between you and your community i mean i i don't want you to trespass on any confidentialities but i'm trying to get a sense of because my understand my my understanding and both my both my understanding my experiences uh we're not talking about even something like political beliefs and i agree with you about i think they put us at the wrong level and they put us in the wrong framework um that's why i have this slogan about stealing the culture um i agree with you so um but i think the the kind of things we're talking what you've been talking about what i talked about last time these are more foundational these are even at the political level these are at like the ontological existential you know your worldview cognitive cultural grammar level and so for me and i would i would i would hypothesize for most people because there's empirical evidence to support this when those are disrupted that's not just you know you're not just angry or frustrated or or you know even passionately so like we see in other you know ideological conflicts but it's it's more um well here here's uh you know a a sort of a guardian point uh you can come to the precipice of despair when you get this kind of epistemic shock uh that seems to uh you know portend and indicate the depth of what is happening the the level at which it's happening was that the case for you or um like how i guess i uh again i don't want you to spill your guts or anything but like how much of this