go in more detail i'm just giving you the gist of the idea i think there's about five or six of these uh presuppositions but what i see i'm impressed by i'm impressed by the mystics often turning to language that is clearly and explicitly non-theistic plato's the good right platinus is the one uh eckhart's godhead right uh spinoza's got her nature i mean it's very hard to make that a a a theistic argument in fact that's one of the most interest i think that's one of the most telling things about spinoza people are will will yell up and down confidently that he's an atheist or he's a theist or as a pantheist which is a technique right um and so i think you can make the strong place that there's clearly um something in the non-duality experience that tends to be retrospectively tied to a non-theism that is seen as transcending the theism atheism debate i'm particularly interested in that because i think that might be relevant to um something you alluded to already which is a way of addressing the culture wars in a deep way um that i think could be potentially not only just intellectually satisfying but point people to ways of life and realizations that could genuinely transform them so that they're more compassionately disposed towards each other there's that and then i have you know then and i think this is convergent um with you know the argument that john hicks makes in the interpretation of religion in the fifth dimension where he says the the best interpretation to make of the perennial nature of the theism atheism debate is that the universe is in some sense spiritually ambiguous on this question that it it provides i think it's a great meta argument it provides enough evidence for both without enough evidence to determine the debate between either and then he argues for basically a kind of non-theism he says the really real can be we can relate to it personally but we can equally relate to it impersonally and of course that means uh you know he's basically thinking of it as transpersonal and so there's also