and such an important discussion yeah it's it's it's stupid because there's there's a level of interaction with this discussion where people just want to hear uh just want to hear a category they want to throw you into it the atheist boss the theist box the ds book yeah and and and that's and that's and that's something which which is which is so stupid and i think for someone like that i'd rather not give any titles because they're not coming to chat to be challenged they're not coming to learn they're just coming to box people and and there's enough boxing in the world so but i think when we can open up these these labels and open up these terms and see what they might refer to and what those references might imply about reality see i think the real question is when we say when we say what is the nature of the divine or what nate what do you how do you characterize yourself i think what we're really asking is what is the nature of reality and yeah and how do you see reality itself yeah yeah and and and that's that's such an important question because because of that because the metaphysical and the ontological um convictions that we have about reality is what is what defines the way that we go ahead and and live our lives and make our decisions so the category of non-theism is a really is a really fantastic one and and i think um i may have actually heard you use it first and and the way that you use it i think it's so it's so spot-on and so precise um and i haven't heard of you being used much else which is which is a real shame but but the fact the mystics in their um either in their non-duality or in their in their unity point to something which is non-theistic is so blatantly clear i mean i mean the fact just just to open this up for for perhaps people who are less familiar with the with the history and literature mysticism mysticism um in the west there's a tradition known as a prophetic theology which is literally the non-saying the the opposite of character where we try to make positive statements all w