narrative and then they they make that argument that ultimately it folds back into the personal and the narrative is fundamental because that's the only place where we get the the the non-logical identity to make any sense to us and then you get hierarchy and the two are often put together you get you get personal narratives within hierarchy and it seems to me sorry this is a bit of a long setup but it seems to me and i've been trying to say it seems to me but developmentally that the deal logos precedes and makes possible um narrative right and that and that mysticism right and if you want to call this down here dialogue and this up here dear logos there's something that takes us beyond narrative that subverts narrative so that we can precisely so that we can enter into that the mystical version of non-logical identity that is inherently not hierarchical yes and inherently non-narrative yeah that was a long way but i i i guess i want to include you in and i want to get you into this discussion because this this this is sort of the meta discussion i'm having around the the ontology right right now i'm i'm so glad you you you pose that question um because it really is the logical follow-up to what we saw we just discussed um and all i can really do here is share the metaphysics of the mystical tradition which i know most intimately which is jewish mysticism with the advantage of having a bit of you know philosophical and comparative uh literacy as well um so firstly there's there's a question of the framing of reality that we're posing the question from that's that's that's ubiquitous in mystical traditions where from a certain perspective it will be true to say that god is not x um but from the other perspective it would be ludicrous to say that god is not x and we would have to and both of those both those are true based on which level of reality you're you're framing things on and and i think uh a a a conditional truth is is not a difficult thing in in any logical system or any everyday speech even so so so so