that's so that's one point speaking then speaking more directly to the metaphysical point here of what you're referring to which uh arthur loved refers to the great chain of being yeah in a book that launches the entire field of um of history of ideas where he which is called the great shame being which is then taken up by by thinkers that are less academic ken wilbur has made a big deal of this yeah um not that i'm not trying to advocate for any particular thing here but but the notion but the notion that that almost every single mystical tradition um has some sort of hierarchy being to try and to to try and explain what they experienced which was a fundamental unity and the multiplicity of reality and to try and reconcile those two because they're because they're incompatible we must come up with some sort of great human being and at some point and the problem with all these chains of beings and and the capitalists spend more pages in this than almost anything else is that that must however however bigger changes there's always an intermediary level right there must be some point where you've gone from eliminator to emanation right yeah and for the catalyst does that happen in ketter does it happen in the essence of qatar does it happen in the upper essence of qatar this is like this is a never-ending debate um and and so so this is the attempted answer and it's it's neoplatonism it's it's the alienosis it's sufism it's christmas system it's everywhere um and and and eastern system as well they they have they have the same the same structures of reality um however within the metaphysics of jewish mysticism and other traditions there is there is language there's there's three modes by which this um hierarchy of being is supposed to be or okay or or perspectives on how it can be seen um and and that's very important because it makes it um non non-essential or non-non-exclusive and it becomes we we remember that it's that it's just the the finger pointing at the moon it's not the moon itself and therefore there m