f disassociation or othering and and literally the same moves were being made in people that had absolutely no contact and that it blows my mind and i think there's a logical necessity that leads to this form of questioning but um yeah and i don't think anyone's gonna uh just sort of ridicule his ideas what's i think he's up to his fifth phd now what's what number is he on i don't know about that i know i know you i don't know i just know of two two were mentioned in the discussion uh but that's that's always amazing to see to see sort of an entirely different unrelated fields conceptually historically but the exact same the the the the the preciseness of nuance of the exact same debates that emerge and the same points that come out just keep pointing back to to how to how like fundamental this is and how really logical this whole structure is so i mean that brings me up to another point um because when i see things like that and i note them and and thank you for uh resonating with that and um so there's three responses although maybe they're just one response with different aspects one is part of me the cognitive scientist says wow whenever you find something like that like that those kind of universals you're looking there you're looking at the guts of cognition you're looking at the fundamentals of of intelligibility and then there's another part of me uh especially because i'm a 4e cognitive scientist says yeah but cognition isn't in the head intelligibility is a real relationship between cognition of the world there must be something in the world that's also fundamental and there must be something fundamental in the way the world and the and cognition fit together and so i've been trying to articulate that in in terms of in in terms i think are very convergent with what you've been arguing here so one of the things i'm taking away um what you call the divine i call sacred the sacred um i don't think there's much hangs on the difference there that's for me is for personal reasons the divine tends to connote p