n progress 's mean mean depends topic 'm talking plausibility general move back science think science science presupposes epistemic progress n't think science presupposes moral progress um 's sort long discussion could get n't think scientists um presuppose way epistemic progress mean epistemic progress means sorry 'm going invoke 're trying discharge 's plausible build previous knowledge right 's general advance cultural ratcheting real phenomena cultural ratcheting means unlike organisms n't start scratch knowledge build knowledge kind thing fallible discover revise yes nevertheless seem engaging constant cultural ratcheting whether 'm 'm spencerian darwinist anything like social darwinism n't think 's necessary connection cultural ratcheting moral progress become unglued yeah yeah think good evidence yes yes good okay trustworth trustworthiness uh sorry conversions trustworthiness optimal gripping divergence elegance balance goes work elijah milgram also empirical work namely 're gon na 're gon na really apply construct many different areas want extremely trustworthy right see want balance 's going apply much n't require much trustworthiness say really like vanilla ice cream okay like 's gon na like 's gon na open world profound way n't need lot trustworthy evidence uh cl deposit like vanilla ice cream even like lot