say prescriptive um case 're making 're making case mysticism mystical experiences er everything 's called mystical experiences whole 're making case specifically transformative higher states consciousness curtail 's case um um begging question 're making case transformative um ground transformative 're discluding variation transformative problem might problem think know 're saying um want make clear 'm quite circle 'm trying take seriously people claim uh lead transformation sorry want make justify making transformations 've made objective measures improve lives justify saying touch really real want touch justify transformations undertaking transformations terms higher states consciousness many ways know axial religions kind move right know um justifies touch really real fashion onto normativity 's thing 'm 's thing 'm specifically interested experiences actually provide justification transformation 's specific question think 're asking 'm quite n't see quite circle however think 's point 're making well n't excluding wacky things n't know adjective use uh right n't afford transformation part want say make different kind argument historical argument see 's plausibility argument see convergence across cultures across